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[Music]

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hello

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and welcome to episode number 28 of the

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point of convergence podcast

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as always i'm your host exo academian

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ever since the release of videos showing

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images of strangely behaving vehicles

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officially classified as unidentified

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aerial phenomena

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entered the public sphere in 2017

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there has been a rising tide of public

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and even government interest

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in what have more commonly and

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historically been referred to

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as ufos unidentified flying objects

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this rise in interest crescendoed in a

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dod

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report delivered to congress recently

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which has resulted in further

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speculation

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here in the united states and right

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around the world

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not surprisingly the speculation tends

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to revolve around the nature

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as i and others predicted the final

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uaptf report delivered to the public

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i.e the unclassified version of the

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report

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is nebulous enough to at times

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seemingly talk out of both sides of its

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proverbial mouth

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and because of that deliberate

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meticulously crafted wording

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conversation near and far does still

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touch on the possibility of these craft

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being those of foreign adversaries

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though no one

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in the know so to speak in the

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government really believes that anymore

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because the leap in technology

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demonstrated is simply too great

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that said because the extraterrestrial

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possibility was not excluded from

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consideration

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in the report even those who have

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historically

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steered away from speculation about

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non-human visitation

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are now bridging that conversation all

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across the globe

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that is in itself something to celebrate

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this marks a turning point never before

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seen in the history

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of our civilization and we really should

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take a moment to recognize

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and revel in that new reality even if

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most of us who've been looking at the

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data for years

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if not decades will argue that this is

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of course

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well overdue but a win is a win

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so we'll take it the conversation

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which those of us really immersed in

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this topic know is mystifying

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and multifaceted is just beginning for

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much of the general public

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and even for many of our elected

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officials but it is beginning

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and again that's worth celebrating one

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can't finish

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what one hasn't begun

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that said when one pays close attention

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to the conversations that are being had

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all around the world

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one thing becomes clear when the

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non-human origin possibility

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is breached it is almost solely in the

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form of so-called

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extraterrestrial visitors i.e physical

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beings who traveled here from some

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far-flung star system in sophisticated

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spacecraft

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in this sense the conversation quickly

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jumps into the well-grooved category

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of space aliens which has been served up

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time and time again

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via our society's entertainment industry

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the space alien notion in media is so

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ubiquitous now in fact

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that most people can't even consciously

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separate fact from fiction

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in their mind's eye anymore as diana

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pasoka argued in her book

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american cosmic but those of us who

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studied the ufo phenomenon in a

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dedicated and granular way

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have long realized that this familiar

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category

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namely that of space aliens may only

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represent one small piece of a much

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larger puzzle

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indeed the revelations that inevitably

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arise from a close study of this

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phenomenon

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seemingly give birth to a whole new set

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of questions

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for everyone that it often only

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tentatively

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answers knowing this is the case

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we might ask is the general public ready

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for these revelations

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can they quote unquote handle the truth

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as complex and convoluted as it

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apparently

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is and can they stomach entering into a

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conversation

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that has not yet served up clear

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unequivocal answers

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even after decades of underground study

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do they even have the attention span to

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do so

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unlikely i would argue for vast swaths

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of the population anyway

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modern human societies are simply not

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accustomed to this degree

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of unclarity about the nature of reality

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and make no mistake that's where these

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revelations lead

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to questions about the very fabric of

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all that exists

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and to how it is all connected the

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current models of reality will not only

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have to be revised as a result

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but they will need to be re-categorized

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as understandings that

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only apply to microenvironments seen at

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a certain

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local level that in light of the

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totality of all that is

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these notions are almost trite and

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simplistic

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these are vast issues giving way to

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bewildering

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discombobulating questions the likes of

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which our civilization

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has never yet had to deal with in a

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direct way

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how will this be handled what will the

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process look like as it rolls out

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in the months and years ahead these are

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the thorny

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and yet fascinating topics we'll

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endeavor to address

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in this the 28th episode of the point of

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[Music]

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as we begin this week's podcast let's

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first lay out the details

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so we're clear about what we're dealing

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with here and just how deep this rabbit

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hole

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goes but first off let's discuss the

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nature of the conversation

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currently being had amongst the public

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just so we can see

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how far this conversation has to go how

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far it has to progress

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before the public catches up with what

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this

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discussion actually involves

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now if you do hear discussion about any

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kind of non-human intelligence

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it's almost always in the form of space

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aliens

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as i just mentioned now recently

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i saw a debate amongst the uk

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house of lords discussing the

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consequences of this very uaptf

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report now first off again we have to

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acknowledge

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how historic this was here was

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a live debate amongst the united

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kingdom's house of lords

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discussing the uaptf report

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discussing the notion of unidentified

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aerial phenomena

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ufos this was being discussed in the

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light of day

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that said anyone with any familiarity

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with this topic

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would have been frustrated by this

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conversation this discussion

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it was remarkably simplistic and

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one-dimensional

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for instance one particular politician

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said something like

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and i paraphrase here if these were ets

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we'd be photographing them with our

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modern smartphones left right and center

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in other words he assumes they'd just be

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parading across the skies

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in objects we could see and

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videotape and photograph with our

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smartphones

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willy-nilly number one this of course

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assumes they want to be seen

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and number two that they don't have the

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technology or control of our perceptions

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to remain hidden if they so chose now of

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course there's plenty of

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literature behind the ufo phenomenon to

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suggest

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all of these are faulty assumptions of

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course this individual didn't think to

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look into any of that literature

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it was a ridiculous level of sloppy

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research

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and an astounding level of assumption

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and this was amongst our politicians

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of course part of the problem here is in

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regards to where

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one usually finds such a record academic

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studies for instance are often looked to

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from political circles but of course

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that's a huge part of the problem here

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because academia has long ignored this

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question

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altogether so while the literature does

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indeed exist

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and it's an extensive body of data at

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this point

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it's not going to be found by making

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inquiries

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with our society's usual mainstream

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record keepers

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i.e academics another aspect of the

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problem when it comes to

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trying to advance a sophisticated

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nuanced

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discussion about the ufo phenomenon is

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the nature of our media landscape today

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this is no longer the era of walter

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cronkite

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where the vast majority of the american

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population for instance

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would tune into one of three or so

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tv networks to hear from trusted

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authorities when it came to the day's

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news

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demographically speaking today anyone

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under about the age of 55

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is more likely to log onto the internet

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and find their desired news sources

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to consume content and of course this

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has produced

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a series of echo chambers where people

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seek out

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and hear from voices that tell them what

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they already know

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and in many ways already know they want

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to hear

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so in that sense it's not surprising in

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fact that

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supposedly some aspects of the

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government involved with the ufo

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phenomenon or the study of it anyway

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have sought out specific individuals

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that can help

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disperse this conversation amongst the

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larger public

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i speak here of people who have unique

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audiences

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people like sam harris who has said that

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he was approached

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to perform exactly such an action on

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now if nothing else this tells us that

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some people within the government

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with a deep knowledge of this topic have

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given great thought

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to how this is going to roll out how

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they can control the narrative so to

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speak

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they have therefore reached out to

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specific individuals

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that have a unique and authoritative

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voice with different segments of the

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population

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so they can try and roll this out in a

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controlled way

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in the midst of a media landscape that's

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and just to clarify i'm not suggesting

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we should necessarily

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trust the motivations of these

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individuals within government

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00:11:03,750 --> 00:11:02,800
who are thinking about these things

295
00:11:05,990 --> 00:11:03,760
there's plenty of

296
00:11:07,190 --> 00:11:06,000
historical evidence in fact to suggest

297
00:11:10,230 --> 00:11:07,200
we shouldn't

298
00:11:10,870 --> 00:11:10,240
70 plus years or so in fact all i'm

299
00:11:13,829 --> 00:11:10,880
getting to

300
00:11:16,470 --> 00:11:13,839
hear is that clearly these individuals

301
00:11:18,710 --> 00:11:16,480
recognize how difficult it's going to be

302
00:11:20,310 --> 00:11:18,720
to roll out any kind of conversation in

303
00:11:23,430 --> 00:11:20,320
a controlled way

304
00:11:27,030 --> 00:11:23,440
it's very difficult to have a concise

305
00:11:29,590 --> 00:11:27,040
sophisticated nuanced ongoing

306
00:11:31,350 --> 00:11:29,600
conversation about something as complex

307
00:11:33,190 --> 00:11:31,360
as the ufo phenomenon

308
00:11:35,670 --> 00:11:33,200
when we have huge segments of the

309
00:11:36,230 --> 00:11:35,680
population tuning into completely

310
00:11:38,710 --> 00:11:36,240
different

311
00:11:39,350 --> 00:11:38,720
media sources and they're likely going

312
00:11:41,829 --> 00:11:39,360
to hear

313
00:11:42,630 --> 00:11:41,839
very different takes about the ufo

314
00:11:45,430 --> 00:11:42,640
phenomenon

315
00:11:47,110 --> 00:11:45,440
from the get go based on the world view

316
00:11:52,150 --> 00:11:47,120
perspectives of those

317
00:11:56,150 --> 00:11:54,150
part of the challenge here involves

318
00:11:57,190 --> 00:11:56,160
critical thinking skills or the lack

319
00:12:00,389 --> 00:11:57,200
thereof

320
00:12:02,069 --> 00:12:00,399
in our modern society for instance some

321
00:12:04,150 --> 00:12:02,079
people are just quick to jump on

322
00:12:05,990 --> 00:12:04,160
conspiracy theories period

323
00:12:08,470 --> 00:12:06,000
so when they hear that the ufo

324
00:12:10,389 --> 00:12:08,480
phenomenon involves a conspiracy theory

325
00:12:12,790 --> 00:12:10,399
of the government covering up

326
00:12:15,269 --> 00:12:12,800
information for 70 plus years

327
00:12:17,590 --> 00:12:15,279
they'll quickly jump on board they'll be

328
00:12:19,670 --> 00:12:17,600
persuaded in a heartbeat

329
00:12:21,190 --> 00:12:19,680
the challenge though is that these same

330
00:12:23,110 --> 00:12:21,200
people don't show

331
00:12:24,470 --> 00:12:23,120
basic critical thinking skills when it

332
00:12:27,110 --> 00:12:24,480
comes to distinguishing

333
00:12:28,710 --> 00:12:27,120
something that is evidentially true like

334
00:12:31,509 --> 00:12:28,720
the ufo phenomenon

335
00:12:33,030 --> 00:12:31,519
from other ideas other conspiracies that

336
00:12:35,269 --> 00:12:33,040
are quickly demonstrably

337
00:12:36,150 --> 00:12:35,279
false for anyone who does any kind of

338
00:12:38,629 --> 00:12:36,160
research

339
00:12:41,110 --> 00:12:38,639
and exercises basic critical thinking

340
00:12:43,590 --> 00:12:41,120
skills

341
00:12:44,470 --> 00:12:43,600
and that often muddies the water amongst

342
00:12:46,389 --> 00:12:44,480
a different

343
00:12:48,150 --> 00:12:46,399
completely different section of the

344
00:12:51,110 --> 00:12:48,160
public that assumes that

345
00:12:51,990 --> 00:12:51,120
oh if this group believes that a and

346
00:12:55,190 --> 00:12:52,000
they also believe

347
00:12:56,150 --> 00:12:55,200
b then the entire thing must be hogwash

348
00:12:59,670 --> 00:12:56,160
because we know

349
00:13:01,910 --> 00:12:59,680
a is hogwash therefore by association b

350
00:13:03,910 --> 00:13:01,920
must be hogwash as well

351
00:13:05,670 --> 00:13:03,920
and of course this second segment is

352
00:13:07,990 --> 00:13:05,680
also the kind of group

353
00:13:09,590 --> 00:13:08,000
that assumes that if this was real we

354
00:13:11,590 --> 00:13:09,600
would already know about it

355
00:13:13,350 --> 00:13:11,600
so you have two very different groups

356
00:13:14,069 --> 00:13:13,360
who come on board for very different

357
00:13:15,910 --> 00:13:14,079
reasons

358
00:13:19,030 --> 00:13:15,920
and it doesn't move the conversation

359
00:13:22,150 --> 00:13:21,190
now i just mentioned a second segment of

360
00:13:24,470 --> 00:13:22,160
the population

361
00:13:25,910 --> 00:13:24,480
that has a strong confidence in the

362
00:13:29,110 --> 00:13:25,920
controlling narrative

363
00:13:30,629 --> 00:13:29,120
in the mainstream perspective now there

364
00:13:33,350 --> 00:13:30,639
are various ways that this

365
00:13:34,629 --> 00:13:33,360
narrative is rolled out one of them that

366
00:13:37,190 --> 00:13:34,639
has real gravity

367
00:13:38,069 --> 00:13:37,200
in today's world is search engine

368
00:13:40,470 --> 00:13:38,079
rankings

369
00:13:42,870 --> 00:13:40,480
and of course as we all know there's

370
00:13:45,110 --> 00:13:42,880
only a few companies that control

371
00:13:46,550 --> 00:13:45,120
the vast majority of data that is

372
00:13:51,670 --> 00:13:46,560
produced when people

373
00:13:55,110 --> 00:13:53,189
now in the midst of something like a

374
00:13:57,670 --> 00:13:55,120
pandemic we can of course

375
00:13:59,350 --> 00:13:57,680
most of us anyway understand why it's

376
00:14:01,670 --> 00:13:59,360
important to be able to control

377
00:14:03,269 --> 00:14:01,680
the quality of data when you're trying

378
00:14:04,949 --> 00:14:03,279
to ensure public safety

379
00:14:07,269 --> 00:14:04,959
you want to make sure people are getting

380
00:14:09,829 --> 00:14:07,279
accurate scientifically backed

381
00:14:11,509 --> 00:14:09,839
data now i understand even there there's

382
00:14:13,590 --> 00:14:11,519
some nuance to the discussion

383
00:14:15,110 --> 00:14:13,600
but as a general rule that makes a lot

384
00:14:17,509 --> 00:14:15,120
of sense

385
00:14:18,790 --> 00:14:17,519
the challenge comes in learning where to

386
00:14:23,189 --> 00:14:18,800
draw the line

387
00:14:25,750 --> 00:14:23,199
when the controlling narrative

388
00:14:27,189 --> 00:14:25,760
is wrong as in the case of the ufo

389
00:14:29,189 --> 00:14:27,199
phenomenon

390
00:14:30,629 --> 00:14:29,199
then that means people will continue to

391
00:14:33,189 --> 00:14:30,639
be served up

392
00:14:33,910 --> 00:14:33,199
less quality information time and time

393
00:14:35,750 --> 00:14:33,920
again

394
00:14:37,829 --> 00:14:35,760
the less quality results will show up

395
00:14:39,829 --> 00:14:37,839
ahead of the better quality results

396
00:14:42,790 --> 00:14:39,839
because the controlling narrative

397
00:14:44,710 --> 00:14:42,800
dictates that that should be the case

398
00:14:46,710 --> 00:14:44,720
behind the scenes these algorithms are

399
00:14:50,150 --> 00:14:46,720
being tweaked to make sure this

400
00:14:52,150 --> 00:14:50,160
is the case again the challenge is

401
00:14:54,629 --> 00:14:52,160
when the mainstream narrative is

402
00:14:58,230 --> 00:14:54,639
incorrect this only

403
00:15:01,590 --> 00:14:58,240
elongates persists the exact problem

404
00:15:05,269 --> 00:15:03,990
okay so i think that serves as a pretty

405
00:15:07,829 --> 00:15:05,279
useful summary

406
00:15:09,030 --> 00:15:07,839
of the overall challenges we face in

407
00:15:11,189 --> 00:15:09,040
trying to advance

408
00:15:12,230 --> 00:15:11,199
a nuanced discussion of the ufo

409
00:15:14,949 --> 00:15:12,240
phenomenon

410
00:15:16,710 --> 00:15:14,959
in the general public now let's move on

411
00:15:19,430 --> 00:15:16,720
to the second part of the podcast

412
00:15:21,430 --> 00:15:19,440
when we talk about what issues we

413
00:15:23,509 --> 00:15:21,440
actually need to bring forward

414
00:15:27,670 --> 00:15:23,519
what kind of deep questions do we need

415
00:15:30,790 --> 00:15:27,680
to get people to start thinking about

416
00:15:32,069 --> 00:15:30,800
question number one who are they as

417
00:15:34,310 --> 00:15:32,079
we've already discussed

418
00:15:36,949 --> 00:15:34,320
when the question of who these beings

419
00:15:39,790 --> 00:15:36,959
may be if they are indeed non-human

420
00:15:41,350 --> 00:15:39,800
is put forward the assumption is

421
00:15:43,749 --> 00:15:41,360
extraterrestrial

422
00:15:44,710 --> 00:15:43,759
that assumption is so ubiquitous in fact

423
00:15:46,870 --> 00:15:44,720
that no one

424
00:15:47,990 --> 00:15:46,880
stops to ask the question about other

425
00:15:50,870 --> 00:15:48,000
possibilities

426
00:15:52,550 --> 00:15:50,880
it's just assumed that et is the only

427
00:15:54,470 --> 00:15:52,560
other option

428
00:15:56,230 --> 00:15:54,480
but of course as we've discussed on this

429
00:15:59,030 --> 00:15:56,240
podcast many times

430
00:16:00,470 --> 00:15:59,040
there are actually numerous options and

431
00:16:02,310 --> 00:16:00,480
my perspective has been

432
00:16:04,230 --> 00:16:02,320
and continues to be that there are

433
00:16:06,230 --> 00:16:04,240
likely numerous actors

434
00:16:07,749 --> 00:16:06,240
with different origins and perhaps

435
00:16:10,790 --> 00:16:07,759
different agendas

436
00:16:13,990 --> 00:16:10,800
all acting at the same time that only

437
00:16:17,509 --> 00:16:14,000
makes this already complex conversation

438
00:16:20,710 --> 00:16:18,949
now because we've discussed these

439
00:16:21,590 --> 00:16:20,720
different options many times in this

440
00:16:23,430 --> 00:16:21,600
podcast

441
00:16:25,189 --> 00:16:23,440
here i'll just give a quick overview of

442
00:16:26,870 --> 00:16:25,199
the different options

443
00:16:28,310 --> 00:16:26,880
they could be et that is

444
00:16:30,949 --> 00:16:28,320
extraterrestrial as

445
00:16:33,269 --> 00:16:30,959
conventionally conceived they could also

446
00:16:33,829 --> 00:16:33,279
be a kind of et that is more complex

447
00:16:36,550 --> 00:16:33,839
than we

448
00:16:37,629 --> 00:16:36,560
understand yet there is also the

449
00:16:40,470 --> 00:16:37,639
possibility of

450
00:16:42,110 --> 00:16:40,480
cryptoterrestrials as discussed by

451
00:16:43,670 --> 00:16:42,120
mactones in his book the

452
00:16:46,790 --> 00:16:43,680
cryptoterrestrials

453
00:16:47,749 --> 00:16:46,800
here we speak of physical beings who are

454
00:16:50,949 --> 00:16:47,759
stealthy

455
00:16:51,430 --> 00:16:50,959
but are here physical beings in our very

456
00:16:53,670 --> 00:16:51,440
midst

457
00:16:55,990 --> 00:16:53,680
in our physical dimension just

458
00:16:57,749 --> 00:16:56,000
stealthily staying out of our way

459
00:16:59,430 --> 00:16:57,759
now for some that will be even more

460
00:17:02,069 --> 00:16:59,440
frightening than the idea of

461
00:17:02,550 --> 00:17:02,079
extraterrestrials only recently visiting

462
00:17:06,710 --> 00:17:02,560
us

463
00:17:10,309 --> 00:17:06,720
exist then they've likely been here

464
00:17:13,029 --> 00:17:10,319
all along another possibility of course

465
00:17:14,029 --> 00:17:13,039
is ultra-terrestrials and this opens up

466
00:17:15,990 --> 00:17:14,039
notions like

467
00:17:17,510 --> 00:17:16,000
interdimensionality which again is going

468
00:17:20,309 --> 00:17:17,520
to be a huge stretch

469
00:17:22,069 --> 00:17:20,319
for vast wasps of the population here

470
00:17:24,549 --> 00:17:22,079
we're speaking of beings that are

471
00:17:26,710 --> 00:17:24,559
sometimes here and sometimes not

472
00:17:27,669 --> 00:17:26,720
and then can pop in and out of our

473
00:17:29,510 --> 00:17:27,679
existence

474
00:17:32,549 --> 00:17:29,520
that this partially may explain why we

475
00:17:37,909 --> 00:17:32,559
see even vehicles that seem to pop in

476
00:17:42,150 --> 00:17:40,870
another possibility is entities that are

477
00:17:44,230 --> 00:17:42,160
time traveling

478
00:17:45,190 --> 00:17:44,240
there has even been suggestions that

479
00:17:47,830 --> 00:17:45,200
these others

480
00:17:48,789 --> 00:17:47,840
some of them anyway may be us from the

481
00:17:50,870 --> 00:17:48,799
future

482
00:17:52,390 --> 00:17:50,880
in fact i did an entire podcast on the

483
00:17:54,950 --> 00:17:52,400
notion that these could be

484
00:17:55,669 --> 00:17:54,960
us from the future but with a genome

485
00:18:00,549 --> 00:17:55,679
spliced

486
00:18:02,470 --> 00:18:00,559
with other life forms from our planet

487
00:18:04,470 --> 00:18:02,480
regardless of which of those origin

488
00:18:06,710 --> 00:18:04,480
stories we turn to

489
00:18:08,070 --> 00:18:06,720
one thing the data does seem to point to

490
00:18:10,390 --> 00:18:08,080
is that these others

491
00:18:11,110 --> 00:18:10,400
many of them anyway seem to be able to

492
00:18:13,750 --> 00:18:11,120
manipulate

493
00:18:15,669 --> 00:18:13,760
both space and time or at least our

494
00:18:17,510 --> 00:18:15,679
perception of those

495
00:18:18,950 --> 00:18:17,520
and when that's the case as jacques

496
00:18:20,789 --> 00:18:18,960
valet has said

497
00:18:22,230 --> 00:18:20,799
then from our point of view they could

498
00:18:25,190 --> 00:18:22,240
be from anywhere

499
00:18:27,430 --> 00:18:25,200
or any time and that only further

500
00:18:30,150 --> 00:18:27,440
complicates an already convoluted

501
00:18:33,990 --> 00:18:32,390
now as i mentioned in the introduction

502
00:18:35,750 --> 00:18:34,000
and as i've touched on on previous

503
00:18:38,710 --> 00:18:35,760
podcast episodes

504
00:18:40,950 --> 00:18:38,720
part of the enigma of the ufo phenomenon

505
00:18:43,190 --> 00:18:40,960
is that questions that begin here

506
00:18:45,029 --> 00:18:43,200
eventually spiral out into larger

507
00:18:48,630 --> 00:18:45,039
questions about the nature of

508
00:18:51,029 --> 00:18:48,640
ultimate reality itself that we find

509
00:18:53,029 --> 00:18:51,039
crossover phenomena that even though we

510
00:18:55,029 --> 00:18:53,039
used to think of different categories

511
00:18:56,549 --> 00:18:55,039
as distinct that should be studied in

512
00:18:58,470 --> 00:18:56,559
their own right

513
00:19:00,230 --> 00:18:58,480
this phenomenon suggests that these are

514
00:19:02,310 --> 00:19:00,240
somehow all connected

515
00:19:04,950 --> 00:19:02,320
that some sort of meta-analysis is

516
00:19:08,390 --> 00:19:04,960
needed to make sense of it all

517
00:19:12,310 --> 00:19:08,400
one such crossover is between the others

518
00:19:14,310 --> 00:19:12,320
and the dead by the way for those of you

519
00:19:16,950 --> 00:19:14,320
curious to pursue this further

520
00:19:18,549 --> 00:19:16,960
i did an entire podcast episode on this

521
00:19:20,789 --> 00:19:18,559
very topic

522
00:19:23,029 --> 00:19:20,799
and whitley strieber is an individual

523
00:19:25,270 --> 00:19:23,039
that we're all familiar with no doubt

524
00:19:26,390 --> 00:19:25,280
who's had frequent interactions that

525
00:19:29,510 --> 00:19:26,400
involved both the

526
00:19:31,110 --> 00:19:29,520
others and the dead he's not only

527
00:19:32,630 --> 00:19:31,120
experienced this but so have other

528
00:19:35,909 --> 00:19:32,640
people in his presence

529
00:19:38,950 --> 00:19:35,919
often at his cabin in new york

530
00:19:40,549 --> 00:19:38,960
now while this seems counter to common

531
00:19:42,630 --> 00:19:40,559
sense at first

532
00:19:43,990 --> 00:19:42,640
this actually makes sense when you think

533
00:19:46,789 --> 00:19:44,000
about the fact that

534
00:19:49,110 --> 00:19:46,799
many of these encounters with the others

535
00:19:50,789 --> 00:19:49,120
seem to happen in an altered state of

536
00:19:52,950 --> 00:19:50,799
consciousness

537
00:19:54,630 --> 00:19:52,960
but of course this inevitably leads to a

538
00:19:58,150 --> 00:19:54,640
necessary reframing

539
00:20:00,070 --> 00:19:58,160
of what counts as quote-unquote reality

540
00:20:01,270 --> 00:20:00,080
what if our awakened conscious state is

541
00:20:04,549 --> 00:20:01,280
only one of many

542
00:20:05,110 --> 00:20:04,559
possible modalities this is again a new

543
00:20:07,990 --> 00:20:05,120
question

544
00:20:09,750 --> 00:20:08,000
that our society needs to think about

545
00:20:13,669 --> 00:20:09,760
needs to confront in a real

546
00:20:14,789 --> 00:20:13,679
and meaningful way what if some of these

547
00:20:17,190 --> 00:20:14,799
entities cross

548
00:20:17,830 --> 00:20:17,200
back and forth regularly what if their

549
00:20:20,390 --> 00:20:17,840
normal

550
00:20:21,909 --> 00:20:20,400
quote-unquote home base is one of these

551
00:20:24,070 --> 00:20:21,919
other modalities

552
00:20:25,990 --> 00:20:24,080
and we only sometimes come into contact

553
00:20:28,950 --> 00:20:26,000
with them because of that

554
00:20:29,909 --> 00:20:28,960
what if our dead who actually are not

555
00:20:32,630 --> 00:20:29,919
dead at all

556
00:20:33,590 --> 00:20:32,640
but just in a different modality now are

557
00:20:35,830 --> 00:20:33,600
somehow able to

558
00:20:37,510 --> 00:20:35,840
interact with these others because of

559
00:20:40,789 --> 00:20:37,520
these different modalities

560
00:20:42,310 --> 00:20:40,799
and maybe the entities are able to serve

561
00:20:46,230 --> 00:20:42,320
as bridges

562
00:20:49,110 --> 00:20:46,240
to allow these people who've left this

563
00:20:50,070 --> 00:20:49,120
plane to come back and visit us this

564
00:20:52,710 --> 00:20:50,080
could be the case

565
00:20:54,310 --> 00:20:52,720
and of course this completely reframes

566
00:20:59,190 --> 00:20:54,320
our current understanding

567
00:21:03,270 --> 00:21:01,029
now if that wasn't already bizarre

568
00:21:06,710 --> 00:21:03,280
enough this rabbit hole of course

569
00:21:09,590 --> 00:21:06,720
only gets deeper the thing is

570
00:21:10,230 --> 00:21:09,600
if they can control human perception by

571
00:21:13,669 --> 00:21:10,240
serving up

572
00:21:15,830 --> 00:21:13,679
distinct simulations for thousands

573
00:21:18,149 --> 00:21:15,840
maybe even millions or billions of

574
00:21:20,630 --> 00:21:18,159
people at the same time

575
00:21:23,270 --> 00:21:20,640
how does one go about studying this from

576
00:21:26,310 --> 00:21:23,280
within the confines and assumptions

577
00:21:29,510 --> 00:21:28,470
and just to be really clear here i'm not

578
00:21:32,230 --> 00:21:29,520
talking about

579
00:21:33,029 --> 00:21:32,240
them serving up a simulation to

580
00:21:34,630 --> 00:21:33,039
thousands

581
00:21:37,110 --> 00:21:34,640
perhaps even millions of people at the

582
00:21:37,750 --> 00:21:37,120
same time i'm talking about their

583
00:21:40,789 --> 00:21:37,760
ability

584
00:21:44,149 --> 00:21:40,799
to serve up distinct simulations

585
00:21:46,789 --> 00:21:44,159
or experiences for each person

586
00:21:47,830 --> 00:21:46,799
amongst a group of thousands or millions

587
00:21:50,789 --> 00:21:47,840
or maybe even

588
00:21:51,350 --> 00:21:50,799
billions how does that complicate our

589
00:21:54,390 --> 00:21:51,360
notion

590
00:21:57,110 --> 00:21:54,400
of how we can understand study and

591
00:21:59,669 --> 00:21:57,120
draw conclusions about quote-unquote

592
00:22:02,310 --> 00:21:59,679
reality

593
00:22:04,789 --> 00:22:02,320
of course in my podcast episode about

594
00:22:05,830 --> 00:22:04,799
the events at fatima and the apparitions

595
00:22:07,830 --> 00:22:05,840
scene there

596
00:22:09,510 --> 00:22:07,840
that many believe is an example of the

597
00:22:12,070 --> 00:22:09,520
ufo phenomenon

598
00:22:13,510 --> 00:22:12,080
that's exactly what happened thousands

599
00:22:15,510 --> 00:22:13,520
of people saw something

600
00:22:18,070 --> 00:22:15,520
even from 10 miles away from the

601
00:22:21,350 --> 00:22:18,080
epicenter but what people saw

602
00:22:23,990 --> 00:22:21,360
even the messages they received varied

603
00:22:25,750 --> 00:22:24,000
and yet stations astronomical

604
00:22:26,549 --> 00:22:25,760
observatories and whatnot that were

605
00:22:29,750 --> 00:22:26,559
using

606
00:22:32,310 --> 00:22:29,760
devices to measure didn't pick up

607
00:22:33,750 --> 00:22:32,320
anything and again though seventy

608
00:22:36,549 --> 00:22:33,760
thousand people will tell you

609
00:22:39,430 --> 00:22:36,559
otherwise that shows you how complex

610
00:22:45,590 --> 00:22:42,710
and again this begs the question if even

611
00:22:47,750 --> 00:22:45,600
time and the order of events can be

612
00:22:50,950 --> 00:22:47,760
manipulated by these others

613
00:22:53,029 --> 00:22:50,960
even within our shared physical reality

614
00:22:54,149 --> 00:22:53,039
what does this say for the sufficiency

615
00:22:57,029 --> 00:22:54,159
of the scientific

616
00:22:58,470 --> 00:22:57,039
method to make headway in studying such

617
00:23:00,789 --> 00:22:58,480
matters

618
00:23:02,630 --> 00:23:00,799
now retired u.s army intelligence

619
00:23:05,110 --> 00:23:02,640
colonel john alexander

620
00:23:06,950 --> 00:23:05,120
has discussed this very thing and he

621
00:23:10,070 --> 00:23:06,960
calls it pre-cognitive

622
00:23:11,990 --> 00:23:10,080
sentient phenomena he talks about how

623
00:23:14,630 --> 00:23:12,000
this made scientific study

624
00:23:16,710 --> 00:23:14,640
very difficult if not nearly impossible

625
00:23:18,710 --> 00:23:16,720
at skinwalker ranch

626
00:23:19,750 --> 00:23:18,720
basically whenever they would try and

627
00:23:21,510 --> 00:23:19,760
set up

628
00:23:23,270 --> 00:23:21,520
variables by which they could study

629
00:23:24,390 --> 00:23:23,280
something they would find that the

630
00:23:27,669 --> 00:23:24,400
experiment had been

631
00:23:29,990 --> 00:23:27,679
messed with in some way that made study

632
00:23:32,789 --> 00:23:30,000
and drawing conclusions virtually

633
00:23:36,870 --> 00:23:34,630
and just to be abundantly clear the

634
00:23:37,950 --> 00:23:36,880
reason why john alexander coined this

635
00:23:40,710 --> 00:23:37,960
expression

636
00:23:42,230 --> 00:23:40,720
precognitive sentient phenomena is

637
00:23:45,110 --> 00:23:42,240
because he saw

638
00:23:45,750 --> 00:23:45,120
what looked like entities knowing the

639
00:23:47,350 --> 00:23:45,760
future

640
00:23:49,190 --> 00:23:47,360
knowing what was going to happen ahead

641
00:23:51,909 --> 00:23:49,200
of time so that made

642
00:23:53,430 --> 00:23:51,919
using the scientific method to conduct

643
00:23:57,110 --> 00:23:53,440
research

644
00:23:58,789 --> 00:23:57,120
practically impossible

645
00:24:01,590 --> 00:23:58,799
now as if the rabbit hole was not

646
00:24:03,430 --> 00:24:01,600
already deep enough it goes deeper yet

647
00:24:05,510 --> 00:24:03,440
remember earlier i mentioned that

648
00:24:08,149 --> 00:24:05,520
various phenomena that were once

649
00:24:09,029 --> 00:24:08,159
part of different fields of inquiry have

650
00:24:11,590 --> 00:24:09,039
been shown to

651
00:24:13,990 --> 00:24:11,600
be somehow connected there's some sort

652
00:24:16,230 --> 00:24:14,000
of crossover

653
00:24:18,310 --> 00:24:16,240
contact with non-human intelligence is

654
00:24:20,310 --> 00:24:18,320
one form and this isn't just space

655
00:24:22,149 --> 00:24:20,320
aliens or interdimensionals it could be

656
00:24:25,750 --> 00:24:22,159
a variety of forms

657
00:24:27,909 --> 00:24:25,760
all non-human intelligence though also

658
00:24:28,789 --> 00:24:27,919
near-death experiences out-of-body

659
00:24:32,630 --> 00:24:28,799
experiences

660
00:24:35,110 --> 00:24:32,640
remote viewing contact with apparitions

661
00:24:37,110 --> 00:24:35,120
all of these different categories are

662
00:24:38,710 --> 00:24:37,120
somehow connected that's what the data

663
00:24:41,350 --> 00:24:38,720
suggests

664
00:24:43,029 --> 00:24:41,360
many people who have had any one or more

665
00:24:45,909 --> 00:24:43,039
of these experiences

666
00:24:47,029 --> 00:24:45,919
also come back with increased capacities

667
00:24:49,669 --> 00:24:47,039
as compared to

668
00:24:50,870 --> 00:24:49,679
who they were before these increased

669
00:24:54,310 --> 00:24:50,880
capacities

670
00:24:56,630 --> 00:24:54,320
fall often along the side spectrum

671
00:24:59,669 --> 00:24:56,640
including for instance precognitive

672
00:25:03,190 --> 00:25:02,390
now as i've mentioned before we can't go

673
00:25:05,590 --> 00:25:03,200
very long

674
00:25:06,710 --> 00:25:05,600
asking questions about who they are

675
00:25:09,029 --> 00:25:06,720
without eventually

676
00:25:10,390 --> 00:25:09,039
ending up with questions about who we

677
00:25:12,630 --> 00:25:10,400
are

678
00:25:14,830 --> 00:25:12,640
and it's not just the ufo phenomenon

679
00:25:17,110 --> 00:25:14,840
that leads us here

680
00:25:17,990 --> 00:25:17,120
parapsychology is another field of

681
00:25:20,870 --> 00:25:18,000
inquiry

682
00:25:21,750 --> 00:25:20,880
that is finding very similar results

683
00:25:23,909 --> 00:25:21,760
results that

684
00:25:26,230 --> 00:25:23,919
question the dominant narrative as to

685
00:25:28,950 --> 00:25:26,240
the nature of reality

686
00:25:30,470 --> 00:25:28,960
many of these results evidenced in both

687
00:25:33,590 --> 00:25:30,480
the ufo phenomenon

688
00:25:36,310 --> 00:25:33,600
and parapsychology fall along the psi

689
00:25:37,269 --> 00:25:36,320
spectrum here we're talking about human

690
00:25:41,269 --> 00:25:37,279
capacities

691
00:25:46,630 --> 00:25:41,279
for telepathy telekinesis precognition

692
00:25:49,750 --> 00:25:49,269
in other words many of the capacities

693
00:25:51,830 --> 00:25:49,760
that

694
00:25:53,830 --> 00:25:51,840
some people will look at and consider

695
00:25:56,470 --> 00:25:53,840
quote unquote alien

696
00:25:57,830 --> 00:25:56,480
may actually be something innate to

697
00:26:00,149 --> 00:25:57,840
human beings

698
00:26:00,950 --> 00:26:00,159
even if it is mostly dormant or at an

699
00:26:04,149 --> 00:26:00,960
early stage

700
00:26:05,990 --> 00:26:04,159
of its evolutionary development

701
00:26:08,149 --> 00:26:06,000
more importantly the fact that these

702
00:26:10,870 --> 00:26:08,159
capacities not only belong

703
00:26:12,310 --> 00:26:10,880
to quote unquote aliens but also to

704
00:26:13,909 --> 00:26:12,320
human beings

705
00:26:15,430 --> 00:26:13,919
and the fact that we find so much

706
00:26:18,470 --> 00:26:15,440
crossover between

707
00:26:20,470 --> 00:26:18,480
various categories like

708
00:26:22,310 --> 00:26:20,480
contact with non-human intelligence

709
00:26:24,549 --> 00:26:22,320
contact with the dead

710
00:26:25,590 --> 00:26:24,559
near-death experiences out-of-body

711
00:26:28,789 --> 00:26:25,600
experiences

712
00:26:31,830 --> 00:26:28,799
remote viewing etc all of these

713
00:26:34,630 --> 00:26:31,840
seem to serve as spokes

714
00:26:36,789 --> 00:26:34,640
connecting to some central hub where

715
00:26:39,269 --> 00:26:36,799
consciousness may be at the root

716
00:26:41,029 --> 00:26:39,279
that's one way to look at it another way

717
00:26:44,310 --> 00:26:41,039
to see it is this is just

718
00:26:46,870 --> 00:26:44,320
reality this is just at the root level

719
00:26:47,750 --> 00:26:46,880
how reality is constructed and what

720
00:26:50,549 --> 00:26:47,760
we're observing

721
00:26:52,070 --> 00:26:50,559
is merely phenomena produced by this

722
00:26:54,230 --> 00:26:52,080
phenomena that up until

723
00:26:55,110 --> 00:26:54,240
now we've either dismissed is not

724
00:26:57,990 --> 00:26:55,120
existing

725
00:26:59,909 --> 00:26:58,000
or if we have acknowledged its existence

726
00:27:03,190 --> 00:26:59,919
we've assumed it's distinct

727
00:27:04,310 --> 00:27:03,200
separate and unconnected what recent

728
00:27:07,269 --> 00:27:04,320
data is showing us

729
00:27:08,070 --> 00:27:07,279
is that this is anything but this is

730
00:27:10,230 --> 00:27:08,080
what we need to

731
00:27:11,750 --> 00:27:10,240
introduce to the general public this is

732
00:27:13,909 --> 00:27:11,760
the complexity

733
00:27:18,389 --> 00:27:13,919
the fascinating complexity that we need

734
00:27:22,549 --> 00:27:20,870
now what has been clearly evidenced both

735
00:27:24,630 --> 00:27:22,559
by what i described today

736
00:27:26,710 --> 00:27:24,640
and what you've no doubt noticed when it

737
00:27:27,669 --> 00:27:26,720
comes to the public nature of the

738
00:27:31,269 --> 00:27:27,679
conversation

739
00:27:33,350 --> 00:27:31,279
right now we have a long way to go

740
00:27:34,950 --> 00:27:33,360
most of what we discussed today has not

741
00:27:37,990 --> 00:27:34,960
even been touched on

742
00:27:40,070 --> 00:27:38,000
this is very much about the iceberg and

743
00:27:41,510 --> 00:27:40,080
people are just now acknowledging that

744
00:27:44,149 --> 00:27:41,520
they're seeing something

745
00:27:44,630 --> 00:27:44,159
surface above the water little do they

746
00:27:47,269 --> 00:27:44,640
know

747
00:27:47,990 --> 00:27:47,279
there's a massive structure that goes

748
00:27:51,669 --> 00:27:48,000
well below the

749
00:27:56,389 --> 00:27:51,679
surface and in this case it touches

750
00:27:59,990 --> 00:27:58,669
i would also argue perhaps somewhat

751
00:28:02,470 --> 00:28:00,000
counter-intuitively

752
00:28:04,070 --> 00:28:02,480
that the further along we get in terms

753
00:28:06,789 --> 00:28:04,080
of the public conversation

754
00:28:09,269 --> 00:28:06,799
acknowledging these other aspects the

755
00:28:11,269 --> 00:28:09,279
messier this is going to get

756
00:28:12,310 --> 00:28:11,279
things are going to be tumultuous for

757
00:28:15,190 --> 00:28:12,320
some time

758
00:28:16,149 --> 00:28:15,200
until we reach a new plateau or sink

759
00:28:19,510 --> 00:28:16,159
point

760
00:28:22,470 --> 00:28:19,520
remember we're just beginning now

761
00:28:24,149 --> 00:28:22,480
one thing i do know patience and grace

762
00:28:27,590 --> 00:28:24,159
both to help others

763
00:28:29,029 --> 00:28:27,600
and to preserve our own sanity and

764
00:28:32,389 --> 00:28:29,039
mental health really

765
00:28:33,909 --> 00:28:32,399
is going to be essential

766
00:28:36,389 --> 00:28:33,919
i make that point for a couple of

767
00:28:38,389 --> 00:28:36,399
different reasons number one

768
00:28:40,149 --> 00:28:38,399
these revelations are going to be

769
00:28:43,510 --> 00:28:40,159
completely utterly

770
00:28:46,789 --> 00:28:43,520
overwhelming for some people indeed

771
00:28:49,110 --> 00:28:46,799
vast swaths of the population probably

772
00:28:51,269 --> 00:28:49,120
remember we talked about people only

773
00:28:53,430 --> 00:28:51,279
being able to ground information

774
00:28:55,190 --> 00:28:53,440
within their current paradigm they're

775
00:28:57,750 --> 00:28:55,200
going to try to make sense of

776
00:28:59,110 --> 00:28:57,760
these revelations based on their current

777
00:29:03,990 --> 00:28:59,120
model of reality

778
00:29:07,350 --> 00:29:05,669
this is true both of people's

779
00:29:09,830 --> 00:29:07,360
intellectual conclusions

780
00:29:11,029 --> 00:29:09,840
and their emotive responses and we'll

781
00:29:13,590 --> 00:29:11,039
need to exercise

782
00:29:14,470 --> 00:29:13,600
patience and grace to help these people

783
00:29:16,950 --> 00:29:14,480
because

784
00:29:17,510 --> 00:29:16,960
not many of them will be responding from

785
00:29:21,110 --> 00:29:17,520
the most

786
00:29:23,669 --> 00:29:21,120
enlightened perspectives we'll also need

787
00:29:24,149 --> 00:29:23,679
patience and grace because for some time

788
00:29:26,310 --> 00:29:24,159
yet

789
00:29:27,430 --> 00:29:26,320
we're likely to be confronted with

790
00:29:29,909 --> 00:29:27,440
arrogance and

791
00:29:30,950 --> 00:29:29,919
ignorance from the gatekeepers of our

792
00:29:34,630 --> 00:29:30,960
society

793
00:29:37,269 --> 00:29:34,640
those who adhere almost religiously so

794
00:29:40,789 --> 00:29:37,279
to the current dominant paradigm of

795
00:29:42,470 --> 00:29:40,799
scientific materialism

796
00:29:43,990 --> 00:29:42,480
but i would just leave you with this one

797
00:29:46,310 --> 00:29:44,000
note of encouragement

798
00:29:47,430 --> 00:29:46,320
in the long run this will be well worth

799
00:29:49,750 --> 00:29:47,440
it because

800
00:29:50,789 --> 00:29:49,760
not only does it afford us a new way of

801
00:29:54,070 --> 00:29:50,799
understanding

802
00:29:58,070 --> 00:29:54,080
as a civilization but more importantly

803
00:30:01,990 --> 00:30:00,470
never forget these profound words of

804
00:30:04,549 --> 00:30:02,000
arthur schopenhauer

805
00:30:05,430 --> 00:30:04,559
that have been demonstrated to be oh so

806
00:30:09,190 --> 00:30:05,440
true

807
00:30:11,990 --> 00:30:09,200
time and time again in our history quote

808
00:30:12,470 --> 00:30:12,000
all truth passes through three stages

809
00:30:16,070 --> 00:30:12,480
first

810
00:30:19,190 --> 00:30:16,080
it is ridiculed second it is violently

811
00:30:23,990 --> 00:30:19,200
opposed third it is accepted

812
00:30:26,470 --> 00:30:24,000
as being self-evident unquote

813
00:30:27,590 --> 00:30:26,480
and on that note we've come to the close

814
00:30:29,990 --> 00:30:27,600
of another edition

815
00:30:31,430 --> 00:30:30,000
of the point of convergence podcast

816
00:30:34,710 --> 00:30:31,440
let's keep this conversation

817
00:30:35,350 --> 00:30:34,720
going and growing but until next time

818
00:30:36,789 --> 00:30:35,360
friends

819
00:30:38,870 --> 00:30:36,799
from deep within the blue ridge

820
00:30:51,269 --> 00:30:38,880
mountains of north carolina